Comments on: An Evening of Fine Dining at Lumière http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/ The Personal Yakkety Yakkings of an Internet Entrepreneur Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:16:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dot Com Foodies Feel the Wrath of the Feenie Burger! | Stephen Fung DOT NET http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/comment-page-1/#comment-14253 Dot Com Foodies Feel the Wrath of the Feenie Burger! | Stephen Fung DOT NET Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:52:40 +0000 http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/#comment-14253 [...] establishment is nestled next door.  You can read about my fine dining experience at LUMIERE right here. Although I’ve been to Feenies before, I’ve never tried their legendary Feenie [...] [...] establishment is nestled next door.  You can read about my fine dining experience at LUMIERE right here. Although I’ve been to Feenies before, I’ve never tried their legendary Feenie [...]

]]> By: Stephen http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/comment-page-1/#comment-14242 Stephen Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:43:37 +0000 http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/#comment-14242 I hope you know that you just insulted your Father in Law in the public domain, though I agree with you that his tipping methodology is severely flawed and wreaks of cheap ass. However, your anger with his conduct has obviously blinded you to the big point that is being made. A mandatory tip only serves two purposes: Sets an artificial ceiling on the tips that a server can earn and makes it OK for subpar service to be acceptible. Now that a ceiling has been put in place, the servers that want to give great service and earn their higher tips are being prevented from doing so because why would they want to work harder than their counterparts that don't give a crap? What's in it for them to bust ass? Also, with the tip specified, why would anyone pay more? It's like paying more for something at the store when the price is clearly marked. It's stupid! I realize that some people have no clue what to tip, but wouldn't it be more useful to make tipping suggestions than to insult people about their tipping methods by specifying what to tip? Perhaps just putting a scale in place on the back of the bill that serves as a rating of service would be helpful. 5 - 10%, OK, 10 - 15% Good, 15 - 20% Very good, 20%+ Outstanding. Then that way, servers and the restaurant know how their staff are performing. Specifying a tip nullifies any feedback that could be gained and also makes it impossible for truly exceptional servers that enjoy serving to get the tips they deserve, over and above the norm. One thing that I really disagree with on your comment is the fact that you seem to treat wait staff as charity cases. Why would generosity factor into a business transaction? IF they are providing great service then they should be paid accordingly to the quality of service. Genorosity only factors in when you are talking about donations to charity. What they are offering is a service in exchange for money. Treating them as such is truly degrading. There are people that LOVE what they do and want to make it a career, not just a Summer job to get them through school. You obviously feel sorry for them and when you feel sorry for them you pity them. People that like their jobs don't need to be pitied and some people have pride in what they do, no matter what it is. The tip out is nothing new, but this also gives gives the support staff the incentive to work harder to help the wait staff out and also gives the server the ability to take charge and ensure that the support staff are doing their jobs. When the support staff are busting ass it makes the servers job easier. But this also means that the server can push them harder when they really need them and they will respond because the more tips the server gets, the more tips they get. So no one is scoffing at tips. I just scoff at people that THINK they deserve to be tipped regardless of their effort and it's pretty bad here in North America. More servers here THINK they deserve a tip regardless of the service more than anywhere else in the world that I've been. But what do I know about the restaurant business? Afterall, I only spent 6 years working front and back of house in the family restaurant. What could I possibly know about how hard the work is in a restaurant or how much service staff deserve to be tipped? If I was your server, yes, I'd think that your Father in Law was a cheap ass. However, if you really thought that I deserved a bigger tip, you would give me an opportunity to earn it from you rather than feeling sorry for me and paying me off to make you feel better about your In-Law's tipping faux pas. I hope you know that you just insulted your Father in Law in the public domain, though I agree with you that his tipping methodology is severely flawed and wreaks of cheap ass. However, your anger with his conduct has obviously blinded you to the big point that is being made.

A mandatory tip only serves two purposes: Sets an artificial ceiling on the tips that a server can earn and makes it OK for subpar service to be acceptible. Now that a ceiling has been put in place, the servers that want to give great service and earn their higher tips are being prevented from doing so because why would they want to work harder than their counterparts that don’t give a crap? What’s in it for them to bust ass?

Also, with the tip specified, why would anyone pay more? It’s like paying more for something at the store when the price is clearly marked. It’s stupid! I realize that some people have no clue what to tip, but wouldn’t it be more useful to make tipping suggestions than to insult people about their tipping methods by specifying what to tip? Perhaps just putting a scale in place on the back of the bill that serves as a rating of service would be helpful. 5 – 10%, OK, 10 – 15% Good, 15 – 20% Very good, 20%+ Outstanding. Then that way, servers and the restaurant know how their staff are performing. Specifying a tip nullifies any feedback that could be gained and also makes it impossible for truly exceptional servers that enjoy serving to get the tips they deserve, over and above the norm.

One thing that I really disagree with on your comment is the fact that you seem to treat wait staff as charity cases. Why would generosity factor into a business transaction? IF they are providing great service then they should be paid accordingly to the quality of service. Genorosity only factors in when you are talking about donations to charity. What they are offering is a service in exchange for money. Treating them as such is truly degrading. There are people that LOVE what they do and want to make it a career, not just a Summer job to get them through school. You obviously feel sorry for them and when you feel sorry for them you pity them. People that like their jobs don’t need to be pitied and some people have pride in what they do, no matter what it is.

The tip out is nothing new, but this also gives gives the support staff the incentive to work harder to help the wait staff out and also gives the server the ability to take charge and ensure that the support staff are doing their jobs. When the support staff are busting ass it makes the servers job easier. But this also means that the server can push them harder when they really need them and they will respond because the more tips the server gets, the more tips they get.

So no one is scoffing at tips. I just scoff at people that THINK they deserve to be tipped regardless of their effort and it’s pretty bad here in North America. More servers here THINK they deserve a tip regardless of the service more than anywhere else in the world that I’ve been. But what do I know about the restaurant business? Afterall, I only spent 6 years working front and back of house in the family restaurant. What could I possibly know about how hard the work is in a restaurant or how much service staff deserve to be tipped?

If I was your server, yes, I’d think that your Father in Law was a cheap ass. However, if you really thought that I deserved a bigger tip, you would give me an opportunity to earn it from you rather than feeling sorry for me and paying me off to make you feel better about your In-Law’s tipping faux pas.

]]> By: Kendra http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/comment-page-1/#comment-14239 Kendra Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:30:30 +0000 http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/#comment-14239 A friend of mine forwarded this page to me based on a conversation we had the other day. I was a server in university and I know how hard restaurant people work, so tipping is a sore subject with me. I do my best not dine out with people who do not respect service staff. I find them embarrassing and it colours my opinion of them, simply as a human being. What some people can justify never ceases to amaze me! I was out for dinner with my family a month ago. I sat next to my father-in-law. He paid the bill. During the meal, everyone commented on the great food and the excellent service. There were 6 of us at the table but this particular restaurant only puts an automatic gratuity on parties of 7 or more. The bill was $1400 and change. My father-in-law tipped $100. He justified this to us by saying that if the server had 2 tables that night (us, and one other) that they would make $200 and this was enough. Are some of you nodding? First of all, who is he to say what is enough? He has been a GP in Vancouver for almost 45 years. Who tells him when he has made enough? After they bought their second vacation home? When he was able to buy his 4th collector car? After he paid to put all four of his children through university? When has he earned enough? Why should it harm our sensibilities for a server to live well? Why can't they make a great living? Are we worried that they won't know their place? In this case, what my father-in-law didn't know was that in this restaurant, the service staff tip back to the house 6% of their sales (including tax). (I did a little research) That means our server had to give back over $84 of that tip. So, she served us for 3 hours and made about $15. She had our table, plus 2 other tables of 2 that night. I was watching. We dined from 6:30 to 9:30 so I am guessing that our table wasn't sat again. She probably made $50 that night - if she was lucky. Is that enough? In my research, I discovered that most restaurant have a "tip out" policy for 2 - 6.5% in Vancouver. The staff pay that tipout regardless of how well they are tipped. The restaurant takes that money and divides it up between kitchen staff, bussers, bartenders, hostesses etc. In some of the shadier places in town, the owner even keeps some of it. The next day, I went back to that restaurant and left $250 for our server. She was great after all! I am surprised at the number of people who scoff at tips. I wonder what their income would look like if it was determined but people outside their field. How much would we pay for phone service or dry cleaning or a dentist appointment if we determined that for ourselves. Who really had an attitude of entitlement - the server or the customer? If you truly felt that the service was worth 20%, I believe you would not have been put off by the 18% AND you would have tipped extra to show your appreciation. Do you think you should get a metal for generosity? Do you think you should be revered simply for giving what is fair or GASP, earned? Give me a break people, restaurant work is hard work! Why shouldn't they make a decent living! Just tip and be glad your salary isn't based on your personality!!! A friend of mine forwarded this page to me based on a conversation we had the other day. I was a server in university and I know how hard restaurant people work, so tipping is a sore subject with me. I do my best not dine out with people who do not respect service staff. I find them embarrassing and it colours my opinion of them, simply as a human being. What some people can justify never ceases to amaze me!
I was out for dinner with my family a month ago. I sat next to my father-in-law. He paid the bill. During the meal, everyone commented on the great food and the excellent service. There were 6 of us at the table but this particular restaurant only puts an automatic gratuity on parties of 7 or more. The bill was $1400 and change. My father-in-law tipped $100. He justified this to us by saying that if the server had 2 tables that night (us, and one other) that they would make $200 and this was enough.
Are some of you nodding?
First of all, who is he to say what is enough? He has been a GP in Vancouver for almost 45 years. Who tells him when he has made enough? After they bought their second vacation home? When he was able to buy his 4th collector car? After he paid to put all four of his children through university? When has he earned enough? Why should it harm our sensibilities for a server to live well? Why can’t they make a great living? Are we worried that they won’t know their place?
In this case, what my father-in-law didn’t know was that in this restaurant, the service staff tip back to the house 6% of their sales (including tax). (I did a little research) That means our server had to give back over $84 of that tip. So, she served us for 3 hours and made about $15. She had our table, plus 2 other tables of 2 that night. I was watching. We dined from 6:30 to 9:30 so I am guessing that our table wasn’t sat again. She probably made $50 that night – if she was lucky. Is that enough?
In my research, I discovered that most restaurant have a “tip out” policy for 2 – 6.5% in Vancouver. The staff pay that tipout regardless of how well they are tipped. The restaurant takes that money and divides it up between kitchen staff, bussers, bartenders, hostesses etc. In some of the shadier places in town, the owner even keeps some of it.
The next day, I went back to that restaurant and left $250 for our server. She was great after all!
I am surprised at the number of people who scoff at tips. I wonder what their income would look like if it was determined but people outside their field. How much would we pay for phone service or dry cleaning or a dentist appointment if we determined that for ourselves. Who really had an attitude of entitlement – the server or the customer?
If you truly felt that the service was worth 20%, I believe you would not have been put off by the 18% AND you would have tipped extra to show your appreciation. Do you think you should get a metal for generosity? Do you think you should be revered simply for giving what is fair or GASP, earned? Give me a break people, restaurant work is hard work! Why shouldn’t they make a decent living! Just tip and be glad your salary isn’t based on your personality!!!

]]> By: Stephen http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/comment-page-1/#comment-4448 Stephen Fri, 08 Dec 2006 07:32:31 +0000 http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/#comment-4448 If the restaurant is to make the tip an entitlement, then the restaurant should pay the tip...not me. Else, they make it part of the food cost, and pay their employees. Tips are earned. If the restaurant is to make the tip an entitlement, then the restaurant should pay the tip…not me. Else, they make it part of the food cost, and pay their employees. Tips are earned.

]]> By: Tyler http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/comment-page-1/#comment-3966 Tyler Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:42:02 +0000 http://www.stephenfung.net/an-evening-of-fine-dining-at-lumiere/#comment-3966 I noticed how they tacked on 18% for their tips. I can see it as being a bad thing. If you're a waiter/ess and you already know you are getting a tip without having to go 'Above and Beyond' then would you still do it? When I took a cruise on the Serenade of the Seas with Royal Caribbean there was an option for either adding a percentage at the end of the cruise for your tips etc or take figure out an amount yourself. I found that if we did not have them automatically add a percentage to our bill at the end of the cruise that the employee's on the cruise were much more helpful and definately made the trip that much more fun. Though if your establishment is a place where people skip out the tips are not as generous as you think they should be then sure, why not add on a percentage to the bill to ensure your staff gets a small bonus. Geesh with a bill of $1500 18% is nice ;-) I noticed how they tacked on 18% for their tips. I can see it as being a bad thing. If you’re a waiter/ess and you already know you are getting a tip without having to go ‘Above and Beyond’ then would you still do it?

When I took a cruise on the Serenade of the Seas with Royal Caribbean there was an option for either adding a percentage at the end of the cruise for your tips etc or take figure out an amount yourself.

I found that if we did not have them automatically add a percentage to our bill at the end of the cruise that the employee’s on the cruise were much more helpful and definately made the trip that much more fun.

Though if your establishment is a place where people skip out the tips are not as generous as you think they should be then sure, why not add on a percentage to the bill to ensure your staff gets a small bonus. Geesh with a bill of $1500 18% is nice ;-)

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